We Said We Had Enough Information To Ask The Question - Did The Marine Corps declare a still another Marine KIA/BNR (Killed In Action/Body Not Recovered) when intelligence indicated capture? Regular readers of "Bits" know the story of Kenny Plumadore and Mark Judge. They were Marines declared KIA/BNR, when, in fact, intelligence reported the capture of 1 - 3 Marines. At least one of these unaccounted for Marines was confirmed captured by the Vietnamese.

Another Marine declared KIA/BNR was Ronald Ridgeway. His "remains" along with others lost in his incident were eventually "recovered" and interred with a group burial at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery. In fact, there were no "remains" for Ronald Ridgeway. This was confirmed by the release of POW Ronald Ridgeway, during Operation Homecoming, in 1973.

Now, we've stumbled on still another Marine, declared KIA/BNR, who may have been captured. A Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) document, located in the Library of Congress raises a very serious question, as to the status of one Marine. The document, dated 23 October 1967, is titled "Confirmed U.S. PW's In SVN." The document contains the names of 32 servicemen, 27 names are typewritten and 5 are handwritten. It is among those hand written names that we find the entry of a USMC member "not on list."

All of the names on the document are blacked out. However, visible on the document are Branch of Service, Rank, Date and Place of Capture. Using that information, we were able to correlate back to the names. Those names provide an interesting mixture of returned POWs, POWs acknowledged by the Vietnamese to have died in captivity, POWs who were release by their captors during the war, one POW who escaped, individuals known to be in captivity but not returned, and one Marine "not on list." The list is striking in its accuracy. (To view document click here.)

The names typed on list are:

Names added to the typed list, by hand, with handwritten notation:

ALLIANCE COMMENT: Records indicate no Marines are carried as MIA in South Vietnam for the month of March 1967. Two were listed as Killed in Action/Body Not Recovered. Both were lost on March 13, 1967, in Quang Tri Province. One was L/Cpl Virgil Terwilliger. The other is PFC Paul Harris. Neither was carried as POW/MIA in 1967. During the March 12 - 13 time frame three other Marines were listed as Killed In Action, in Quang Tri. They are PFC's Roosevelt Scott and Elmo Marinelli, lost March 12th. L/Cpl. Timothy Cox was listed as KIA on March 13th. All three are listed as remains recovered. Assuming the identifications are accurate, there are only two possible correlations to the Marine "not on list." Based on rank reported we correlate this report to Virgil Terwilliger. However, we can not rule out the possibility that the report relates to Paul Harris

ALLIANCE COMMENT: We believe date of loss is entered incorrectly on the document. Date of loss should read 25 Nov 66. On the 1973 Died In Captivity List presented by the Vietnamese, in Paris. Vietnam HAS NOT returned his remains.

ALLIANCE COMMENT: Known POW

ALLIANCE COMMENT: Returned during Operation Homecoming 1973

ALLIANCE COMMENT: Released November 1967 in Cambodia. Actual loss location was Cambodia. South Vietnam was listed to cover the fact that U.S. troops were in Cambodia.

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"Not On List" - That says it all. According to the CIA there was one captured Marine, that no one, including the Marines was looking for. There is no evidence that any effort was expended to further locate or confirm the status of the Marine we believe to be Virgil Terwilliger or Paul Harris. A review of the casualty file of Virgil Terwilliger, all eleven pages of it, contains no mention of this CIA Report. The eleven pages contain almost no information on the loss incident.

Much of the information we have on the incident comes via the POW Network, the Vietnam Helicopters Association and comments from those who served with Terwilliger and Harris. However, there are no witness statements which state, Terwilliger and/or Harris did not get out of the helicopter. It is assumed they did not get out.

We know the incident involved a UH-34D with a four man crew. The aircraft commander, Maj. Peter Samars and copilot 2dLt Robert E. Swete survived the incident but were badly burned. Major Samars died of his injuries on March 19th, 1967. Lt. Swete recovered. We have found no witness statements to say that L/CPL Terwilliger or PFC Harris were left in the aircraft. Nor, can we find a witness statement to say they cleared the aircraft before the explosion. A third party provided information that "The aircraft exploded before the other two crew members could be freed. The pilots were retrieved from the area the following day and were taken to the USS Repose."

However, we must all remember that witnesses reported that both LCDR Scott Speicher and Capt. Scott O'Grady did not clear their aircraft's. Witnesses reported that no chutes were seen and that there was no radio contact. Yet, we now know both ejected successfully and landed alive. The O'Grady story had a happy ending. The Speicher story is still waiting for the ending to be written.

Was Virgil Terwilliger or Paul Harris captured? Another questions is why is Marine Command so fast to declare a man BNR? Is it to maintain the reputation that Marines Command never leaves anyone behind? We know that Marines in the field do everything in their power to bring their buddies home. Many good Marines have died trying to retrieve wounded and dead buddies left on the field. Operation Kingfisher is a testament to that fact. So, why does Marine Command continue to BNR men, they know were either captured or are truly missing?

What happened to Virgil Terwilliger or Paul Harris? The CIA knows but they are not talking. The case of the Marine "Not On List" is another example of why the lawsuit against the CIA must succeed. How much more information on the Marine "Not On List" is the CIA holding and hiding?

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Why Do We Need The CIA Lawsuit.... To get to the truth!

The CIA is now denying Roger Hall access to certain information needed to pursue his lawsuit. Here is a message from Roger. "The CIA is restricted from releasing documents pertaining to specific cases because of the McCain Act. The McCain act prohibits the CIA from releasing documents without the specific authorization of the particular POW/MIA primary next of kin. Therefore In the case of Roger Hall, Plaintiff vs CIA, Defendant, Civil Action No. 98-1319, now pending in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, I need the cooperation of each PNOK (that's Primary Next of Kin) in granting me permission to access these documents under the McCain Act. Each family will get copies of the documents if they do exist.

The courts recent rulings stated "the Department of Defense [properly, ed.] also invoked [FOIA] exemption 3 to withhold information regarding last known locations of a particular POW/MIA, the organization of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the organization of the CIA. The last known locations of the POW/MIA were withheld under the McCain Bill, which forbids the disclosure of such information when the POW/MIA's next of kin has not given express permission for its release."

Families wishing to obtain such information on their next of kin, if it does in fact exist, through this court case will need to sign a permission slip as follows:

I [ PNOK name ] authorize Roger Hall to research all information regarding [ unreturned POW/MIA family members name ] withheld under the McCain Bill or for any other reason. Please include the full name of the person that is POW, MIA, or detainee, [ date person was captured or went missing ], [ branch of service or civilian ], [ service number ], and [ social security number ]. The authorization must

be notarized (which can be done at your local bank).

Please send the signed authorization to: Roger Hall c/o POW/MIA FOIA Litigation Acct. 8715 First Ave., Apt 827C, Silver Spring, MD 20910."

For more information contact Roger at 301/585-3361 or email him at: Rhall8715@aol.com

Why does Johnnie Webb still have a job.

Identity of Hungarian POW Confirmed - From Reuters Oct. 5th, by Krisztina Than - Budapest, Oct 5 (Reuters) - Doctors said on Thursday the identity of a Hungarian POW who spent 53 years in a Russian psychiatric hospital has been confirmed, but the old man barely knows he will soon return to his family. ``The world war has ended for Andras Toma and now he can start a quiet life within his family,'' Andras Veer, director of Hungary's National Psychiatry and Neurology Institute, told a news conference...."

"``He seems much happier and calmer now that he's back home in Hungary, and I think he feels something great has happened to him,'' says Akos Barth, a young doctor who treats Toma in Budapest. ``He gave up his habit of eating alone in a corner,'' added Veer.

All of Hungary has been following the saga of the aging POW, who was forgotten by the world until a Slovak doctor treating him in Russia realized that the old man, who barely communicated with anyone, spoke a few words of Hungarian. That led to Toma, who was identified in Russian documents only as Andras Tomas, being returned to Hungary in August and the beginning of a massive effort to determine his identity....

"...Since his homecoming on August 11, a team of doctors, military experts and historians have meticulously pieced together Toma's past from his fragmented memories...."

"...Toma was born in 1925 and lived in a tiny village called Sulyanbokor in eastern Hungary before he was recruited into a demoralized German-led Hungarian army in November 1944 -- to be captured by Soviet troops in Poland in January 1945. In 1947 he was transferred from a prisoners' camp to a hospital in Kotelnich, 700 km (450 miles) from Moscow with symptoms of schizophrenia. He was lost for over half a century...."

"...The Defense Ministry is planning to give Toma a higher rank as well as compensation for the past 55 years -- but it is hardly possible to compensate for a lost life. ``It was difficult to wait, but we're very happy now,'' said Janos Toma, his brother, struggling with words. ``I wish the same could happen to others who had lost their relatives in the war,'' he added."

"On October 23 Veer and a team of experts will set out on a journey back to Russia to five more psychiatric institutes to trace down other Hungarian prisoners of war. "

While They Are Looking --- Perhaps Veer and his team will keep an eye out for American POWs.....

"Robert Jones, deputy assistant secretary of state (that's what the article says) for prisoners of war/missing personnel affairs, said Vietnamese officials had expressed to him their commitment to the task of accounting for U.S. missing."

"Asked what the United States wanted to see more of, he replied "As we seek ways to be more efficient, war are looking at ways that the Vietnamese can do more unilateral work in terms of recover operations."

"He said this particularly applied to cases in which soldiers were last known by their comrades to have been alive. Jones said these were "cases where during the war Americans were known to be on the ground in close proximity to the enemy, but we don't know what happened to them....."